When it comes to sharing her love of art, color, photography, and business, Kellee Wynne isn’t shy. But that openness and willingness to say what’s on her mind didn’t always feel like a good thing when she was growing up. Instead, it’s been a skill she’s spent more than a decade refining and cultivating through her various business ventures as an artist, author, business mentor, and podcaster.

In this episode, Kellee and I chat all about sharing knowledge and cultivating a community online. We dive into why speaking your mind is a gift to your audience (and it’s not actually pushy or bossy!) We also chat about her brilliant marketing skills, from how she dives into the mind of her clients to streamlining her content creation process–and why even though we might be multi-passionate as creatives, we still need to niche down when it comes to business. 

Kellee and I also dig into the way AI is changing the photography industry, and why she’s interested in embracing, not avoiding new technology. We talk about all the ways that the industry has changed just in the last twenty years, and how we can stay flexible moving forward too.

There is SO MUCH wisdom in this fun conversation! Let’s dive in!

What’s in this episode:

• [02:26] Why Kellee Wynne founded her company, Color Crush Creative
• [07:45] Why understanding your customer’s desires is the key to effective marketing
• [11:52] The Primary Content Machine and how Kellee uses it to streamline her content creation
• [17:32] How Kellee helps her clients to find clarity on what they want and need
• [23:44] How Kellee is embracing AI and learning to integrate it into her business
• [31:04] Why Kellee values “we over me” and incorporates community values into her mentoring business
• [34:32] How multi-passionate artists can embrace their interests while also niching down to create a more sustainable business
• [38:40] Kellee’s lightning round

Tune in to this episode to learn how Kellee Wynne takes mentoring creatives to the next level!

SUBSCRIBE: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

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Meet Kellee Wynne

Kellee Wynne Conrad is an artist, author and business mentor. She is a self proclaimed “Boss, not bossy” mentor and brings that to her programs. She is the founder of Color Crush Creative, with more than 20,000 students coming through her online art courses. She hosts the Made Remarkable® Podcast, which explores creativity and entrepreneurship and she’s the author of “Mixed Media Color Workshop” published by Quarto Books.

Connect with Kellee

Visit Kellee’s website

Follow Kellee on Facebook

Follow Kellee on Instagram

Follow Kellee on Youtube

Did this episode with Kellee Wynne inspire you to start sharing boldly and mentoring your creative community? Check out this episode Unlocking the power of a creative community that benefits everyone with Malia Battilana that shares how another photographer started their career!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kellee Wynne: What does the person who’s reading that post need to know right now today? Really talk about what you have that you’re going to offer, but lead them through the pathway of how it’s going to feel. What do they need to know? How are things going to be easy and different? And like, you know, just we don’t know what to talk about because we think that every thing that we say has to match the photo or the image, but honestly you can just look at the camera and you can just pour your cup of coffee and say, What I wish I knew when I had a newborn was how easy this could be.

[00:00:32] Like really like just get in the moment. Like people respond best to real authentic conversation.

[00:00:43] Lisa DiGeso: Welcome to the art and soul show where we dive into heart opening chats on photography, business life, and that messy in between. I’m your host, Lisa DiGeso. A mom, a photographer, and entrepreneur, and I’ll be sharing honest conversations and advice for [00:01:00] photographers with insight on mindset, entrepreneurship, and creativity.

[00:01:04] The goal of this podcast is for you to be able to gain insights and strategies that will get you real results. Because let’s face it, having a photography business can be lonely. But it doesn’t have to be. This is the place you can go when you need a boost of encouragement, a kick in the pants, and inspiration to pick up your camera.

[00:01:24] This is the Art and Soul Show. Hello my beautiful friends. Welcome back to the show. Today I am super excited to dive into today’s conversation with Kelly Lynn Conrad. Kelly is an artist, author, and business mentor. She’s a self proclaimed boss not bossy mentor. And brings that to her programs. She’s the founder of color crush creative with more than 20, 000 students coming through her online art courses.

[00:01:51] She hosts the made remarkable podcast, which explores creativity and entrepreneurship. And she’s the author of mixed media color workshop published by [00:02:00] Quartro Books. I love getting to chat with not only other creatives. But other fellow podcasters. So without further ado, here’s Kelly. Welcome. Thank you so much.

[00:02:10] So happy that I am here getting to chat with you. So let’s dive right in. Can you share your journey as an artist, an author, and a business mentor? And how do you came to found the Color Crush Creative? Well, so. 

[00:02:26] Kellee Wynne: I tried a lot of things. Many of, many of your followers have probably tried a lot of things till they find the thing that is the thing.

[00:02:34] Color Crush Creative is where I started to explore online education. I started in 2017, having already sold in galleries, done curated shows, I worked for the Maryland Federation of Art. I have a Exhibit in New York City didn’t lead to any sales. And then there’s that point where you’re like, I am working so hard to do what I love, but I am not [00:03:00] getting paid to do what I love.

[00:03:02] But at the same time I was diligent to show up online and show up and show up and show up. And this is the key. Even if you don’t even know exactly where you’re going to go, this is showing up and telling your story. So I had all these people who were like, Who, I don’t know, for whatever reason were looking up to me and we were having this great community and building and they’re like, I need help with color.

[00:03:25] Like, that’s my biggest struggle right now, making art is help with color. And so I was like, okay, the best ideas are the ones that come the quickest and that you don’t hem and haw over. So within like three hours, I had set up Color Crush Creative Instagram account and delivered a new color palette and new color information every single week through my newsletter.

[00:03:46] Lisa DiGeso: And it 

[00:03:46] Kellee Wynne: built a newsletter and it built a following. And it was like, I don’t know where this came from, but I just kept going with it. And I served them for a whole year, asking for nothing. Just showing up, just building the list, building [00:04:00] the Desire and the, the interest and before I put out my first art course and then the rest was history.

[00:04:07] Finally, I went from starving artist to multiple six figures and it was like, what a relief. 

[00:04:13] Lisa DiGeso: Yes. I love that. I have to ask. So like as a entrepreneur, what was your gateway of getting into online? Cause I know I started way back in online course creation with Marie Forleo. with eSchool back in like 2012?

[00:04:30] How did you tip toe into the online space? So I 

[00:04:35] Kellee Wynne: never really found them. All of them. The, the entrepreneurs, the ones that follow and learn from until after I had already started my business, Color Crush Creative, the truth was, is I, I was fascinated with the medium of internet connection from the time that it was available.

[00:04:54] So whether it was my early motherhood years of scrapbooking and getting online and [00:05:00] chat groups, then there’s the blogging and then Facebook comes and so all along the way I’m like, how do I use this tool? to connect with people around the world. It just, I don’t know, part of it is I come from an entrepreneurial creative background of my parents and everything, but I, I’ve, I maybe I’m all, I’ve always been interested in marketing.

[00:05:20] I’m the one who watched Bewitched and said, well, the witch is cool, but look at what job her husband does in marketing. And I’m like, why am I this weird kid that loves the idea of ads and sales? Like, I don’t know. I’m opposite of every other creative. Opposite. Because every other creative is like, I’m so scared to do marketing.

[00:05:39] I’m so scared to sell myself. And I was just like, it’s just fun. It’s just presenting ideas to other people and having them go, wow, I need that. So to me, it was never scary to put myself out there. And so it’s just like, oh, a new tool came along Instagram. How am I going to use Instagram? I’m going to share my art and I’m going to share my journey.[00:06:00] 

[00:06:00] And so that’s where I was like, well, there’s potential online. But I think the idea from an art course actually came from me doing mentorship from, for other artists locally. So I would bring them into the gallery I worked for. We’d have, I hosted them in a big, Show, and I would, I would curate the show. I would help them with their website.

[00:06:19] I would help them with their social media, and I did it for a pittance of a penny. 400, and you got like all this experience from me, but I was, I loved it. One of my students said, well, I teach online. This is 2016. She’s like, Well, I teach online and I’m like, Oh, that’s interesting teaching, you know, how much money can you make at that?

[00:06:39] And then when I started doing the math, I’m like, that many students times that, you’re making like 50, 000 just from making a course. And that’s when my. Everything flipped. Yeah. So, so since then I’ve tried all kinds of things online, including memberships, art courses, summits. I’ve taught workshops in person.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] Once I understood the importance of marketing, marketing, meaning just showing up and building the list, then everything from, from that point on has been, you know, full force forward go. 

[00:07:14] Lisa DiGeso: I think, especially in our photography industry. It’s easy, but it’s also hard because, I mean, we have so much content as photographers when it comes to our work, but I think a lot of us get really stuck with what to say with it.

[00:07:28] And so we stop from actually posting anything because we’re like, I don’t know what to say with this image. And I know that consistency really is King, whether it’s building a podcast, whether it’s showing up online. So what advice do you have on that, like being consistent, but also having the words to put with our images?

[00:07:45] Kellee Wynne: I love that because sometimes you got to get going before you actually know where you’re going. But your customers seem to know, the listeners here seem to kind of know the direction they want to go. They know they’re photographers. They [00:08:00] know mostly they’re working with families and newborns. But, Who is your customer specifically?

[00:08:06] Because even that can be more niche. And I know most creatives want to resist the niche, but that’s the secret key ingredient to marketing. Because once you understand what your customer’s desires are, where their heart is, what they’re curious about, where they’re struggling, Like just, I mean, maybe your customer is just struggling with the time to get their family freaking cleaned up for a photo shoot.

[00:08:32] Like talk to them about what they feel, how they’re struggling, what they wish that they knew. And you know, once you start realizing, like you’re just putting yourself in your customer’s shoe shoes, you could write like that pain point. You can. And I know some people don’t like the word pain point, but whatever that struggle is, the deep desire is, whatever it is that they’re excited about, you could write, like, I mean, just think, just brain dump everything that they [00:09:00] really wish that they knew, or you wish they knew, or how easy it is to hire you, or how easy it is to work with you, or, Just your behind the scenes.

[00:09:09] Lisa DiGeso: Yeah. 

[00:09:10] Kellee Wynne: You know, they want to know you’re like, yeah, I get it as a mom because I’m a mom too. And this is the chaos. So if you want a photo, uh, you know, I’ll put together we could do that. Or we could do like, think outside the box. You guys think outside the box. Maybe we’ll do one where you’re in your messy middle.

[00:09:27] Yeah. Life raising kids. Yeah. And it’s okay because we can make something really joyful out of that. So talk to your customers really honestly and just try to get into their head and you’ve been working with them long enough. It’s the same thing that I work with all my clients. What does, what does the person who’s reading that post need to know right now today?

[00:09:47] Right. And then I, I like to mix it up with what am I about to offer? So if I know I’m about to launch something, I’m about to do my springtime photo shoots. It’s time to do, you know, [00:10:00] Christmas photos, but let’s do it in July. So it’s not too late. And you don’t, and you miss out on booking or whatever, or yeah, I have this great new package.

[00:10:06] I’m going to come in once a month and take every single one of those one month photos of your baby as they’re growing up. Like, oh my goodness. Really talk about what you have that you’re going to offer, but lead them through the pathway of how it’s going to feel. What do they need to know? How is thing?

[00:10:21] How are things going to be easy and different and like, you know, just, we don’t know what to talk about because we think that everything that we say has to match the photo or the image. Honestly, you can just look at the camera and talk about, you can just pour your cup of coffee and say, what I wish I knew when I had a newborn was how easy this could be.

[00:10:43] Like really like just get in the moment. Like people respond best. to real authentic 

[00:10:49] Lisa DiGeso: conversation. Yeah. A hundred percent. I love that. I’m actually, I’m coming off a sabbatical. I took a, cause I’ve got two companies. I’ve got the Milky Way where we’ve got an online education platform, but I also have an online or a [00:11:00] photography business and I’m coming back from a sabbatical from taking about a year or a year and a half off.

[00:11:05] And so in that time, I literally did nothing. When it came to my social media, I stopped like my website got hacked. So I had no website. So. It, I took this as an opportunity to just start again. I was like, okay, I now have the opportunity to build the exact business that I’ve dreamed of. So why don’t I build that?

[00:11:25] And so that’s what I’ve done. And I never blogged before. That was something that I never did. So now what I do is I go Monday morning, I sit down and I take 20 minutes and I will write a blog. But then I take that same blog and I’m now repurposing it and I’m putting it on to Instagram. Right. Which I never have done before, but it’s, it’s like, it’s not as hard as we think it is.

[00:11:48] It’s just like, get out of your own way and just start doing it. 

[00:11:52] Kellee Wynne: And just start doing it. 

[00:11:52] Lisa DiGeso: I like 

[00:11:53] Kellee Wynne: to 

[00:11:53] Lisa DiGeso: call that the 

[00:11:53] Kellee Wynne: primary content machine. The way I’ve developed my system for marketing, I try to keep it as simple as [00:12:00] possible for my clients. So we pick that one thing that’s the easiest or that’s the juiciest.

[00:12:06] So for some people, for me, it’s the podcast because I have made remarkable podcasts. For some people, it’s blogging. For some people, it’s a YouTube channel. And we create our primary content machine and from that you can use it to spur all the other ideas that you need for the week. 

[00:12:22] Lisa DiGeso: Yeah. I love that. I think, cause we just get so in our heads that, you know, it has to be a certain way or it’s so hard and it’s just like another thing we have to do.

[00:12:31] And if we’re just like didn’t do it, it just, it’s so much easier than I thought it was. Honestly. It’s 

[00:12:36] Kellee Wynne: great. And it’s so much better to, to just keep consistently showing up messy than not show up at all. 

[00:12:43] Lisa DiGeso: Yeah. Because 

[00:12:43] Kellee Wynne: that’s what I did for, I mean, I’m sure I admit I’ve dedicated a whole decade of my life to Instagram, but it was in that process that I’ve had customers since prior to color crush creative who have gone through the entire gamut of learning art from me and [00:13:00] And now we’re in my mentorship programs because I color crush creative like you, I’ve kind of put a pause on teaching art.

[00:13:08] There are so many other people who can, who that I’m going to help them with their business to teach art, art, creativity, making whatever photography, ceramics, sewing, whatever it is, your creative thing that keeps you going that you get to pass on to other people in whichever way that you’re going to build this amazing.

[00:13:28] I love supporting that person because that to me, the more creativities in the world, the better, but I had to put a pin in color crush creative to focus on what I’m doing now, but I’ve had customers come from way back then, you know, the Kelly’s just blogging phase. Yeah. To now Kelly’s a mentor and a coach.

[00:13:50] And so they followed me on that whole journey. And people do they want to see where you’re going. So you just show up, talk about what you’re doing now. And some people will fall to the wayside and new people [00:14:00] will come and especially with photography of what you’re doing. looking for is the customer who’s going to hire your services.

[00:14:07] That’s going to be ever changing. So what your goal is, is to get them so excited about what you’re doing, that they are talking about you when you’re not around telling their friends, you just had a baby, you have to go and contact so and so they did the best job. That’s what we want to keep building on.

[00:14:24] Lisa DiGeso: I love that. Now, you have a mantra that I love, and it is boss, not bossy, in your mentoring approach. So how does that shape your mentoring style and your results with your students? 

[00:14:36] Kellee Wynne: I realized at some point about two years ago that the things that were the hardest for me as a child are the gifts that I have been given that give me the strength.

[00:14:49] ability to do what I do now. And also there’s that idea that for some reason a guy can take charge and he’s the boss. But if a girl does it, she’s bossy. And I [00:15:00] was the bossy girl. In fact, I’m still kind of a bossy girl. I’m okay with that, but I’m owning it more in a way through love and compassion than I, and for myself, than I did.

[00:15:11] As a, you know, I mean, I, I despise myself because of it. You know what I mean? Like I, I tried to resist all of that. And the more that I step into this role, the more I realize those are the tools that help me guide other people. My customer doesn’t want to come in and be, self coached. How do you feel about that?

[00:15:32] What do you think you should do? No, they want, they want mentorship that says, this is the path that I’ve traveled. This is my recommendation. And they love me for that being my open candor. Absolute honesty comes from a place of, of love and support for my clients because I want their success. So they’re like, She’s not going to mince words.

[00:15:54] She’s going to tell me which way I need to go. And at some point I finally realized that [00:16:00] the thing that caused so much friction in my youth is the thing that gives me my superpower now. And that’s also where Made Remarkable comes from because We all have what it takes. We just have to tap into that. We are all made remarkable.

[00:16:16] You don’t have to become anything. There isn’t some grandiose perfection to achieve. Your gifts, I have some that have gone through my programs that are like, Well, I’m, I’m really an empath and I, I’m very like emotionally connected and, and I’m like, use that to your ability, build your business around who you are and the gifts you’ve been given.

[00:16:38] Even if they caused you problems in your past, even if you thought that was a weakness, even if you feel like that was what was holding you back, flip it. How are you going to use it now? And how are you going to build and design a business that suits your personality? And for me, I mean, who would have known that talking was going to be the thing that I would make my money off of?

[00:16:58] But no, my mom [00:17:00] knew. My mom knew. Because this is the path I was meant to be on. The more I open my mouth and talk, the more I help others fulfill their dreams and feel good about themselves and who they are and what they want to accomplish. So I’m like, okay, that’s boss, not bossy, and I’m going to own it instead of being afraid of it.

[00:17:20] Lisa DiGeso: I love that. Now, did you ever run into a situation where you have your clients and they’re like, I don’t actually even know what I want and how do you help unpack what is it that I actually want? 

[00:17:32] Kellee Wynne: It’s sometimes, yeah, that happens. That even happens to me. I know it happens to you. I think I’m asking because I, I actually just had this conversation with my husband.

[00:17:41] I’m like, I don’t 

[00:17:41] Lisa DiGeso: know what I want. 

[00:17:42] Kellee Wynne: Yeah, right. Because really, honestly, we’re going to change and grow our whole life and whatever we think that we’re doing now that like, it’s not, you’re not stuck in this path forever. I mean, look at Jenna Kutcher. She was a photographer. Yeah. And now she’s like, I know, massive.[00:18:00] 

[00:18:00] Influencer. Yeah. She’s really, she’s a thought leader. I’d rather give her credit for that. And so you don’t know how life is going to continually change, but in the moment we do have to make a decision. Yeah. And I like, I really like falling on like, one of my clients explained this to me of what I did for her.

[00:18:18] And so I’ve kind of owned it. She says, you’re like a prism. You’re showing me all the different facets of myself and then bringing it back to so I can make sense of it. And where, I don’t believe that being multi passionate is going to help you in your business as far as doing all the things, right? So if you’re trying to sell something and you’re trying to do photos and you’re trying to make art and you also have this basket weaving project over here, like, I mean, I know so many artists that are like that.

[00:18:45] They have all these things and they don’t want to let go of any of it. All those different avenues are killing you from actually being able to. Make money and probably overwhelming you. So I’m like, how do you package all the things about [00:19:00] you into the ideal business? Right. So how we’re very multifaceted people and as creatives, it’s really important that We don’t leave parts of ourselves out.

[00:19:12] There are some things that might have to be left on the shelf. But for me, I love art. I love business. I love talking. I love traveling. So, I’ll travel for a workshop. I’ll make art so that I can stay creative. I work with artists. So, I’m packaging up the best parts of me. of me. Yeah, I’m not able to like do everything, but it’s enough that I feel so fulfilled.

[00:19:36] So I think the first thing is to just really look at the experience you’ve had and then also what you want to be known for. So even if you’re known for one thing, but you really wish that it was going in a different direction, what is it? What is it that, you know, I, I see a lot of people like, well, I’m just going to do this and play it safe for now.

[00:19:56] And they’re missing out on I’m going all the way [00:20:00] because whatever we start building, that’s the foundation, 

[00:20:03] Lisa DiGeso: right? 

[00:20:04] Kellee Wynne: So build it to last and start building this kind of foundation of who you are and what you’re capable of doing from the ground up. And that’ll give you room to pivot along the way. And thinking outside of the box is so important.

[00:20:16] So I’m going to just venture to guess that a lot of your listeners are like, this is what I see other people doing. I’m doing the same thing. Instead of saying, how can I design it? Completely different and yet still familiar enough that people say it’s a no brainer because our product And our business model and what we offer are all different things.

[00:20:38] If your product is photography, your business model is what? Newbor Your business model is taking family pictures. Or taking wedding pictures. Or doing travel photos or whatever. Right? Or in my case it’s, my product is teaching people how to make art. Say it’s teaching people to make art. That’s the product.

[00:20:58] But the model is like, okay, [00:21:00] am I, Making a course. Am I offering in person workshops? How am I designing it? And then the offer is how do you put it together? So it’s so juicy and irresistible. How can you think outside of the box and do it differently than what other people are doing? And the reason I’m bringing all of this in, and as you’re trying to decide, part of the problem in making decisions is we’re just following what we see other people doing.

[00:21:25] But what would be like so bonkers that you’re like, that would never work, and then you do it and it does work. 

[00:21:30] Lisa DiGeso: Um, 

[00:21:31] Kellee Wynne: Right. How do you set yourself apart? How do you like kind of go against the grain of what everyone else is doing? If you’re a boss, not bossy. How do you do 

[00:21:41] Lisa DiGeso: that? You know? Because innovation is really what is going to be sometimes your secret sauce, right?

[00:21:47] Like you’re just yeah, look at it Where’s the problem or like what could I do better? Like what would be? What, what solution or am I solving, you know, maybe it’s like, maybe you’re the photographer that has a [00:22:00] stylist that you work with. Maybe you’re a photographer that maybe has your very own makeup artist, or maybe you don’t even have a client closet, but you offer like styling service where you tell them everything that they can wear beforehand.

[00:22:12] Like it’s, there’s so many different ways to innovate. Right. People aren’t doing right. How about this? There’s someone in 

[00:22:19] Kellee Wynne: my area here bought one of those really cute old caravans that look like like a traveling Circus, I don’t want to use the word gypsy, but I just did anyway But you know like I so that I can paint a picture but yeah, she bought one of those old caravans She renovated the whole thing And then she decorates it for the season.

[00:22:40] So she’ll have a traveling Santa. She’ll have a traveling Easter bunny traveling, whatever. Like, so she brings it. She’ll either say, okay, this is a location that I’m at. Bring everyone. We’ll do photos or I’ll come to you, to your destination, take pictures of you and your family. And, but instead of like a family [00:23:00] having to leave and go to the photography studio, she’s bringing this magic with her.

[00:23:05] So that’s the outside of the box thinking that it’s like, it’s so magic. One time I went in and I saw, it’s like, she had all these like fake bubbles. Plastic, but it looked like bubbles. It looked like a little fairy land. And it’s like, how cute is that? Like, what kind of an idea, you know, it’s like, it’s this thinking outside of the box that sets you apart.

[00:23:26] Lisa DiGeso: Yeah. No, I actually, the question, cause it’s something that’s kind of topical and especially someone who is in the field of art is AI and how that’s affecting artists. So what are your thoughts about all this stuff with, You know, mid journey discord, chat GPT, all that kind of jazz that’s, that’s happening.

[00:23:44] Kellee Wynne: Well, I’m going to have the unpopular opinion of guess what? It’s here. Go with the flow. I’m sorry, but we’re not getting rid of it. I know that when, especially speaking to photographers, when the camera first came out in the 1800s, [00:24:00] portrait artists thought their careers were over. 

[00:24:03] Lisa DiGeso: Right? Or even back in, like, the late 90s, early 2000s when we switched from film to digital.

[00:24:09] Kellee Wynne: To digital. Right? Or in the mid century that people started using, like, I think it was really more the 80s, and into the 90s people really started using Photoshop and digital manipulation, and everything was changing then. Again, it’s like, Digital art, digital, all these different options have come along, come and go.

[00:24:28] I’m sorry the typewriter’s not here anymore, but we have a computer now. And the fact is, is AI is not going away. So it’s unfortunate that there have been artists that their styles have been stolen. And I think that that’s 

[00:24:40] Lisa DiGeso: crap. 

[00:24:40] Kellee Wynne: That, that we allow that to happen, but we can’t stop it. It’s here now, you know?

[00:24:46] So, how can you use it to your advantage? That’s really all I can say and how can you stand out now so that people say well, I could just upload my kid’s photo And make fantasiful [00:25:00] pictures, but what if you say okay, I’m going to make a real fun package for you, I’m going to snapshot 10 pictures, but I’m going to use AI and we’re going to like, put them in a Smurfs village or whatever, I don’t know, like, I’m just trying to, and I can even make your own children’s storybook out of this or, Or a poster for their wall like they’re really into, I’m going to say Strawberry Shortcake because that was my favorite as a kid, and we’ll make a whole scene of Strawberry Shortcake using AI, but I’ve taken some photos and we’re going to manipulate and like, I’ll honestly go with the flow, folks, like if you don’t have an interest in AI, fine, that’s fine.

[00:25:36] Just make sure that what you’re doing is standing out. But with AI, you can’t stop it. So you might as well just like embrace it or stop worrying about it and doing focus on what you can do. 

[00:25:48] Lisa DiGeso: I love that. It’s a good answer. So, so many of us were told as kids that you’ll never make money as a creative. So can you share your thoughts on this and how maybe this [00:26:00] limiting belief that so many of us need to deprogram, maybe some advice on that?

[00:26:05] Kellee Wynne: Yeah. Well, here’s an interesting little tidbit. I was actually raised in an artist community. I know, but not that kind of fun, hippie, poor, cute, um, you know? I lived where everyone had a custom home. And lots of children and, and they supported each other. There were, there was bronze sculpture, foundry, artists who painted big oil paintings.

[00:26:30] There were so many different kinds of artists. So my father’s an artist. And when I was a teenager, we moved into this community. And, and I guess I didn’t know how surreal it was until I became an adult. And I’m like, Oh, okay. So I see artists can make money. really good money. How? Though I was definitely perplexed.

[00:26:52] I joined the army. Go figure. Because I didn’t know what my next step was. I felt very stuck. But then [00:27:00] raising my kids, there was always this part of me that’s like, I got to be able to figure out that quotient that mixing art and business so that I can make a living. I’ve watched other people do it. I know it’s possible.

[00:27:11] But what Most people don’t realize, especially if you have a really young audience, is how far we’ve come to be able to build our own business because of social media. Yeah. And that was not like I watch. In the 80s and 90s and even early 2000s, the only way you were going to make it is with a gallery, with a representation, paying for ads in magazines or, or, or newspapers or flyers or showing up and networking.

[00:27:39] There wasn’t this option that we could just post ourselves online and attract the right customer. So for all of those who are like, Oh, Instagram is such a drag. Tick tock. I hate it. I don’t know if your customers are on tick tock. I’m not, but you know, like I hate having to do this and then you stop and you’re like, okay, but you could just create the most [00:28:00] amazing things to pin on Pinterest.

[00:28:02] And next thing you know, you could have customers. Yeah, we didn’t have that before. So I feel like those who are fighting against having to use the digital online space or social media. are fighting against themselves. Yeah. So you have an opportunity, you can take it and move forward and then you have a chance to actually make money.

[00:28:24] Yeah. And it’s amazing because if it wasn’t for me showing up consistently and then showing up consistently and serving because that’s all Color Crush Creative did at the beginning was just serve and help. and build a community and build connections. If you’re, you know, if you really want to make a good income, that’s it.

[00:28:43] Just show up. And every time you show up online, you have the other person in mind more than you have yourself. You’re going to start making connections. 

[00:28:53] Lisa DiGeso: Now for us, a lot of our photographers run into the people aren’t going to charge me when I need to charge or what I, [00:29:00] what I need to make. So what advice do you have on that?

[00:29:06] Kellee Wynne: Oh my goodness, this is such a hard thing because I, I, sometimes I still feel price resistant when I’m like, how to charge your worth. I love what Jasmine Starr said is she just charged the first price and every time she raised it a little bit. Yeah. But really it’s like, look at the market value around you and look at how you’re putting your offer together.

[00:29:28] What is it that you’re doing that you’re standing out? Are you bringing a, like you said, maybe a. Makeup or you’re bringing your little caravan along. Like where is that? Are you doing high touch editing with it? Are you just giving them the raw images like look at your full package and I do think with time We charge and then we keep raising those prices you get the customers to speak for you Then your value goes up.

[00:29:53] Honestly, the only way to get past it is to do it. Yeah Right? So I do that [00:30:00] recommendation for my clients as they’re launching courses is the first time it’s going to be a little lower. You let them know the next time it’s going to be more. Buy this package now, because the next time it’s not going to be this price.

[00:30:14] Okay, you buy this package and you get three other friends to buy it at this price because the next time price goes up. This gives you a little more comfort level because if you’re asking way beyond where your comfort is, it’s going to show and you’re going to be resistant. If you’re charging so little that you feel taken advantage of when you walk away, you’re You’re going to burn out.

[00:30:34] Yep. So you find that happy little comfort ground, that comfort space that says, okay, this is enough that I will walk away feeling like I’m happy with the work I’ve done. But I also know there’s room to grow in every time you just grow a little bit more. 

[00:30:50] Lisa DiGeso: I love that. Good advice. So the concept of we is more important, I guess, than me.

[00:30:57] That resonates very deeply. So how do you [00:31:00] incorporate this principle into your coaching and your mentoring? 

[00:31:04] Kellee Wynne: Thank you for asking. It’s something that I really, I really had to come. to grips with because when I said I want to help more people, I got a little bit of that. Well, one, a little bit of imposter syndrome because that’s something that’s pretty normal for everybody.

[00:31:20] But I also looked at the bigger coaching space, which we were kind of talking about earlier. No, there’s so many coaches online and some of them feel, I’ll be honest, a little predatory. Yep. Right? There are so many course creators online. There are so many different kinds of programs you can do. There’s so much out there.

[00:31:39] There’s so much to offer. Right? So I looked at it, I’m like, I don’t want to ever be that person that will make money at all costs. Yeah. And so I had to shift the way I was thinking to how am I serving and how am I helping? And if I am not always in a position of serving and helping and creating a better community for everyone, then I’m not in the right [00:32:00] place.

[00:32:00] Yeah. But I had to get to that point where I understood that about myself and how I was going to work with other people and how I was going to teach and coach other people. Because now I have customers that went from, Oh, marketing felt so gross and I hated doing it. And now I like it and I never thought that I’d like it.

[00:32:18] And the reason I like it is because again, like I said, every time I show up, I’m in service, which seems kind of weird to say because marketing, who would have ever said, Marketing or sales could be a service, but if your whole goal is you have a product that you know is going to make somebody happy. Then you go out there and you say, how can I help them, whether they hire me or not?

[00:32:40] How can I help them make a decision? How can I help them know what they want or where, where they’re stuck and give them a solution either for me or for somebody else. If every time you’re doing it, you’re like, we as a collective can rise up. Everyone has a possibility of taking action. A piece of the pie and the pie is infinite.[00:33:00] 

[00:33:00] So that’s just like, I think for me to have the integrity to continue to step in this place, this is what I needed to come to. 

[00:33:08] Lisa DiGeso: I love that. And I, and I think you’re totally right. I think when you approach showing up just with a servant heart and just being like, how can I help someone? Or how can I? You know, that one person that, that might be a beginner and they don’t know and they’re feeling scared.

[00:33:22] Like, what can I say to them that’s going to encourage them and continue them to stick with it? Right. Right? And like, cause that’s, makes all the difference in the world. And that sets you as the, the cheerleader and the helper, right? And they, and they look up to you, right? 

[00:33:37] Kellee Wynne: Yeah. I think, and that was something that I realized that, I always was afraid of being the boss or bossy or like always having to be in charge.

[00:33:46] But I realize even looking back, my job has never been to take control or be in charge. My job has always been to be the cheerleader, the person that says, I’m about to go and have a fun time and I want everyone to come and have a fun time. [00:34:00] Let’s do it. You know, so it’s a reframe and it’s also kind of the way I keep moving myself forward with my business.

[00:34:08] Lisa DiGeso: I love that. That’s great. So let’s talk a little bit about multi passionate, also niching, because I think for a lot of us, sometimes, especially those of us with ADHD, a niche can maybe feel restricting. So how do you help your artists embrace a multi passionate niche while still maintaining that focus and clarity?

[00:34:30] But not getting bored. . 

[00:34:32] Kellee Wynne: Well, it’s, as I said, I’d like to reframe the multi-passionate to the multi-faceted, and I don’t care, whatever word you wanna use, multi, what’s the word I’m looking for? Instead of being a generalist. Be a, be a specific person, a specialist in it. Thank you. That’s the word I’m looking for.

[00:34:53] And here’s my logic behind it because I resisted. I did a lot of things. I tried a lot of things. I have a [00:35:00] lot of clients that come to me and they’re like, well, I have this offer and this offer. And I’m like, how’s it working for you? Are you feeling tired and exhausted? Do you know who you’re even talking to on any given day?

[00:35:10] Because it’s not just the energy. That we have to have in order to make our business happen is the energy that the customers receiving on the other end that says, So, which message do you want me to listen to right now? Right? So, that marketing stream, that communication we have, that open line with the person on the other end, that’s where the biggest jumble happens.

[00:35:34] I mean, yes, in our own breakdown of being able to have a system in order to how we’re building our business, but when I finally accepted this and let some things go and shut down like half of my offers and said, okay, I’m all in and who am I in for? I realized. It made everything easier when you’re trying to do all the things and I can, I know that so many people are like, you need seven different streams of income.

[00:35:58] Well, look, be Amazon [00:36:00] at first and be Amazon who only sold books and Amazon sold books until they were known for it and then they added on more. Now Amazon does everything, but until they got out of the garage. And into, like, honestly, every nook and cranny of the whole world, they were selling books. And it’s the same idea.

[00:36:21] It was like, it’s like this. So I know you’re, you’ve got mostly photographers that are listeners here, but it’s like deciding that you’re like, I’m a digital artist. I’m going to teach how to use the iPad to draw art. Well, okay. So that’s specific enough to say, well, we’re not teaching all art to all people, but what if it got more specific than that?

[00:36:45] Because when you get more specific, you can find your customer better. So I say, what if you niche down and say, I’m going to teach digital art to retirees who are on the road, Who want to stay [00:37:00] creative and they’re like traveling to all of the national parks in their RVs, right? So it seems like, Oh my goodness, I’ve limited myself, but it’s a great place to start because then, you know, retirees, you know, you can find them in our RVs anywhere there’s national parks.

[00:37:15] You can actually find those pockets online of people who are interested in that thing. And you can be like, Hey, I’ve got a solution for you. You know, 55 and free, you retired early and now you’re hitting the road, but let me show you, you don’t need to bring all these art supplies, I’m going to show you how to use your iPad.

[00:37:32] Right? So it’s in that clarity that the customer on the other end knows what it is that you’re talking about. Now, could you eventually say, oh, and I also want to. Teach people who are not in RVs. They’re global travelers. Yes, you can start adding on other pieces, but starting somewhere It’s so hard when you’re like, I’m just I will foot I will do Photography for anyone in anything in any event then it’s like well, okay But I really want someone [00:38:00] who’s really good at one thing and then if you get good then you expand It’s it’s actually a little superpower in being able to build your business faster So, where I resisted the niche for a really long time, I say now the niche is really where the gold is.

[00:38:20] Lisa DiGeso: And even finding a micro niche, really. Right? Even a micro 

[00:38:23] Kellee Wynne: niche. 

[00:38:24] Lisa DiGeso: Yeah. That’s really interesting. So, if you say, 

[00:38:26] Kellee Wynne: I want to be a coach and I can help anyone, that’s really different from saying, I’m a coach who helps creative entrepreneurs build their online business. Period. Right? 

[00:38:37] Lisa DiGeso: Easy. Right? Yeah, I love that.

[00:38:40] Alright, well, are you ready for our lightning round? Oh no, not at all. If you like to cook, what do you like to cook the most? 

[00:38:47] Kellee Wynne: I used to love to cook, and I could do anything. Make jam, bread. But after doing it for so many years, and my oldest son is 25, I’m like, I’d rather not. So, on [00:39:00] any given day, if it’s mom’s day to cook, it will be tacos.

[00:39:06] It’s the easiest. I love it. Yeah. 

[00:39:10] Lisa DiGeso: That’s great. We’re having tacos tonight, actually. 

[00:39:12] Kellee Wynne: Yeah, that’s, I mean, Who can resist tacos? Fortunately, my husband cooks a lot more now, too. Yeah. I love that. 

[00:39:21] Lisa DiGeso: Favorite guilty or not so guilty pleasure? 

[00:39:25] Kellee Wynne: Oh, I’m probably like most people. After I’ve worked and done all the things, all I want to do is just binge some good TV.

[00:39:32] And I usually like sci fi, fantasy, or historical. I’m not that much into reality TV or any of that kind of stuff. 

[00:39:42] Lisa DiGeso: Yeah. Yay to Bridgerton, nay to Bridgerton. 

[00:39:45] Kellee Wynne: Yay to Bridgerton, however, I stopped right after the first season because I was like, I’m gonna have my heart broken and I don’t know if I can do that.

[00:39:54] Lisa DiGeso: Yeah, that’s good. I can’t wait for season three to come out. 

[00:39:57] Kellee Wynne: Oceans or mountains and why? [00:40:00] Oh, well, so I grew up a California girl near the water and now I live on the East Coast. But I have, for some reason, always been more drawn to the mountains. I just love, I love the trees, I love the cool air. And usually beaches, I’m not adverse to the ocean.

[00:40:19] I would pick a cold ocean over a hot beach any day of the week. I don’t want sand and sun and stickiness and sweat. 

[00:40:26] Lisa DiGeso: While 

[00:40:29] Kellee Wynne: everyone else is going to the 

[00:40:30] Lisa DiGeso: beach, I’m like, where is it cold? I love it. Go to song that lifts you up when you’re down. I 

[00:40:39] Kellee Wynne: think, okay, I was going to say don’t listen to music that much anymore because I’m just so busy, but I would say probably anything Van Morrison.

[00:40:49] So I go real oldies probably before my time, but I feel like there’s just something nostalgic and sweet about it. 

[00:40:57] Lisa DiGeso: Totally. I love that. Mine is, [00:41:00] uh, Heart of Gold by Neil Young. 

[00:41:01] Kellee Wynne: Oh, 

[00:41:02] Lisa DiGeso: I love that 

[00:41:03] Kellee Wynne: song. 

[00:41:04] Lisa DiGeso: Okay, 

[00:41:05] Kellee Wynne: I think that we’d probably share some playlists. Yeah, 

[00:41:08] Lisa DiGeso: I love it. Good old 70s kids. What advice do you have for someone just starting out in a creative business?

[00:41:18] Kellee Wynne: Don’t be afraid to try a lot of things and then don’t be afraid to niche. So sometimes you just have to dabble a bit to get your, I’m going to be doing a video on how to get your feet wet and understand yourself better. But when you’re really ready to go full force, pick something, just one offer for one type of a person on one channel and go all in.

[00:41:40] You’ll go a lot further that way. 

[00:41:42] Lisa DiGeso: I love that. What has been the best piece of business advice you’ve ever been given? 

[00:41:50] Kellee Wynne: Well, I could go cheesy and just say, be authentic and show up as yourself. What practically is start your email list early. [00:42:00] Yeah. Honestly, that’s like, once I figured out that was the key to continually making money is just keep building that list.

[00:42:09] Lisa DiGeso: So true. Have a great opt in and build the list. Yep. A hundred percent. Where can our listeners learn more from you? 

[00:42:16] Kellee Wynne: Yes. So you can find me on Instagram, Kelly Wynn Studios spelled K E L L E E W Y N N E studios. I have to spell it because my parents gave me a weird spelling. So Kelly Wynn Studios on Instagram, or come and listen to the Made Remarkable podcast on all platforms.

[00:42:38] I love to talk to artists. We talk creativity, but we talk a lot about building a business. 

[00:42:44] Lisa DiGeso: Love it. Awesome. So I love to end my interviews just with this last question, and it is, what are you currently curious about or artistically curious about? 

[00:42:53] Kellee Wynne: Hmm. I’m actually very curious about spiritual [00:43:00] beliefs and practices around the world.

[00:43:03] So I’m opening up to that more and more as I grow as a human and just how that impacts our relationships and. And helps, what’s the word I’m looking for, just our own soothing our own nervous system. Right. Because I’m a naturally anxious person. I actually have have anxiety disorder and I’m ADHD and.

[00:43:26] Like, all of that kind of stuff, but I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older that a lot of these, especially for me, some of the ancient Eastern philosophies. Really, I’m very curious about it because it really helps me find a sense of peace, not from a afterlife or religious point of view, but of a everything’s gonna be okay kind of point of view.

[00:43:49] We take it in stride, so I’m very curious about that. I even traveled to Nepal two years ago. I’m Yeah. 

[00:43:54] Lisa DiGeso: Oh, amazing. What an experience. Yeah. Very, very cool. It’s pretty 

[00:43:58] Kellee Wynne: fun. 

[00:43:59] Lisa DiGeso: Awesome. [00:44:00] Well, Kelly, thank you so much for joining me today. 

[00:44:02] Kellee Wynne: Thank you so much, Lisa. I’m so glad to be on your Art and Soul podcast. 

[00:44:08] Lisa DiGeso: Oh, my beautiful friends, I hope you have loved this conversation just as much as I have.

[00:44:15] I’m sending you so much of my light and my love today and every single day. We will see you next time. Hey friend, you know what’s the worst? It’s just being mid session and completely freezing. You start to feel awkward, your clients start looking at you for direction, and your brain feels like you just hit a wall.

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