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Most photographers think better gear, stronger marketing, or a new strategy will fix what feels stuck in their business. But often, the real shift starts somewhere deeper.
In this episode, I’m sitting down with mindset and business coach Johl Dunn to talk about the beliefs, habits, and internal patterns that shape how photographers show up, grow, and succeed. Johl shares how comparison, fear, and old conditioning can quietly hold people back, even when they are doing everything “right” on the surface.
We talk about the role of daily habits, emotional energy, and aligned action, why marketing works best when it reflects who you actually are, and how confidence builds through awareness, not perfection. Johl also opens up about his own journey from photographer to coach and what finally led him to follow the work that felt most aligned.
This conversation is a reminder that growth in business rarely starts with tactics. It starts with how you think, how you show up, and what you believe is possible.
What’s in this episode:
- [00:03:00] The first invisible problem most photographers face when they feel stuck
- [00:06:30] Busy work vs the actions that actually move a business forward
- [00:07:30] Building a sales and marketing engine that works today
- [00:09:00] Why showing up as yourself attracts the right clients
- [00:12:30] Identity shifts and letting go of old labels that hold you back
- [00:14:30] Understanding trauma, beliefs, and how they shape confidence
- [00:16:30] Habits and routines that create real momentum in business
- [00:22:00] Subconscious beliefs that keep photographers playing small
- [00:23:30] Comparison, confidence, and letting go of perfection
- [00:26:30] Staying true to your style instead of chasing trends
- [00:27:30] Curiosity, humility, and learning through failure
- [00:29:00] Frequency, energy, and attracting aligned clients
- [00:31:30] Handling difficult clients without losing confidence
- [00:33:30] What makes someone coachable and ready for growth
If you have ever felt stuck, second-guessed your direction, or wondered why the “right strategies” are not working, this conversation will help you reconnect with the mindset, habits, and alignment that truly create momentum.
Meet Johl Dunn
I owned and ran a successful wedding and portrait business for over 20yrs. I started very young and naïve and made every mistake you could. I thought about giving up countless times and suffered through cashflow problems, high stress & anxiety and too much time away from my family. But through coaching, learning, and evolving I broke through all those hard times and created powerful businesses that were systemised, fulfilling and were highly profitable.
And that is why I decided to move into coaching. I want to help as many photographers as I can to not have to go through all the struggles & stress I found and make the mistakes I did. I devised tools, strategies and techniques that are universal and most importantly replicatable and I have now helped 100’s of photographers turn their passion into profit.
Connect with Johl Dunn
Mindset is such an overlooked part of running a business. If you loved this episode with Johl, check out this episode Countdown to Success : Using The Rocketship Blueprint to Propel Your Photography Business Forward with Senior Photographer Sean Brown that shares how another photographer started their career!
Transcript
Art & Soul Johl
Johl: [00:00:00] one of the things is photographers we do is like we compare, ah, they’re so good, but comparison’s the thief of joy. So when you’re comparing all the time, you’re never gonna level up.
’cause you always see yourself as a lot worse than you actually are as well. it’s not like your photography skills when you’re in business is one of the least important things. That’s sort of like I would say, your mindset, sales and marketing process, then your photography in that order.
[00:00:30]
Lisa: Hello, my beautiful friends. Welcome back to the show today. I’m super excited to welcome [00:01:00] back a guest we had on previously. He is a mindset and business coach, Johl Duhn, and we’re here for just a deeper conversation around growth and alignment. So welcome, Johl.
Johl: Thanks for having me back.
Lisa: I’m so excited to chat. So you’ve been a photographer for 20 years and now you’re working full time.
As a mindset and business coach. So what led you to that shift?
Johl: Yeah, it was an organic shift. If you had have asked me 10 years ago that I, you know, and told me I’d be [00:01:30] coaching, I would not have, it wasn’t even on the radar. It was just something that organically happened from getting coached myself and seeing, you know, going through a lot of stress and anxiety and ups and downs in business to finally.
Cracking the code, I guess, and having a really successful business. Then people just started reaching out, like other photographers that I knew and how are you doing this? And I started just organically training and coaching people and I really, really enjoyed it. And then I thought, well, this would be a good side business.
I thought, you know, just do something on the side. And then that [00:02:00] side business turned into. The full business. And I always follow my, where my passion goes. And I started resenting the fact I had to stop coaching and go and do a photo shoot. And that’s when I knew it was time to transition fully into the coaching business. ’cause it’s , where my passion was. Yeah.
Lisa: I love it. That’s great. I am the same way. I didn’t know I was going to be an educator. I just wanted to take awesome photos of my son, who is now 16, which is crazy. So[00:02:30]
Johl: Okay. It’s quick. I’ve got a
Lisa: just land where we land. We land where we’re supposed to. So when you’re coaching with your clients, what is the first invisible problem you usually uncover when someone comes to you feeling stuck and overwhelmed?
Johl: It’s always their, their self, their beliefs in, in general. So. It’s limits we put on ourselves, usually based on the past or based on something we’ve gone through or things we’ve seen or been told and where our own biggest [00:03:00] barrier. , So generally where I start is, okay, where did those beliefs come from?
What are they? And when we bring them into the, the known and you can be aware of them, then we can shift them and then we create habits and structures around to release those and move into alignment with where we want to go. ’cause. Sort of what we were sort of talking, , before we jumped on about how most people go to fear or the worst case scenario first.
And in business that’s even more prevalent ’cause there’s so many unknowns. Like you don’t have a set wage like a [00:03:30] job, so you don’t have that security. So the fear is higher and it lends ourselves to go there. So we really need habits and structures. To move us to where we want to go. ’cause where our thoughts and patterns are, that’s what we get.
So if we’re not careful, we build into that negativity. That’s the results we’re gonna get.
Lisa: Absolutely. I was just reading something, I can’t remember where it was. It was just about the negative bias and when we’re just like focusing so much on the negative, but we’re trying to manifest we just get more of the negative stuff without even realizing we’re doing it.[00:04:00]
Johl: Yeah. It’s sort of like, it’s competing forces. Like we want one thing, but we’re thinking another. So we’re blocking it at every turn when we can get into alignment and start to believe what’s possible, that’s where you go into a flow state and you get there really quickly. Like you start to just, and manifesting is a, a word that gets overused, I guess, but manifesting is useless without the action.
So you have to put the two together. So I was just talking to a client about this is she said she was very [00:04:30] spiritual. And but she and I sort of talked, she, I hadn’t put those connections before with the spiritual side of me and how to introduce that into a business sense and put them together. ’cause people think they’re very polar opposites, but when you bring them together, they’re really, really powerful.
Lisa: I really, I agree. I find even like I, I’ve done, I. I level two reiki, and so I actually use a lot of reiki in my newborn sessions and just like, just pure love and peace and light and like [00:05:00] it is so. Helpful just with centering and calmness. And a lot of people don’t realize like we are energy based beings and bringing that into your newborn photography or even how you are with your clients or in a session, it really matters.
Johl: A hundred percent because you gotta remember, kids particularly are so open and receptive to energy, particularly newborns so they can feel how you are feeling and your energy’s gonna dictate how the session goes. And that was sort of something that I did a [00:05:30] lot of photo families and a lot of young kids and.
A lot of parents would say, wow, like most of my, you know, our kids get scared by men with beards or like, you know, bigger presents, but they’re very calm around you. And it’s because that’s how I used to approach , the shoots is come in very calm, have that energy about it because the kids pick up on it.
Like, you know, when you’re in a relationship, like my kids, like your kids pick up if your, you and your wife having a, an argument, they know like, you know, the energy around it.
Lisa: Oh yeah, they can feel it from downstairs [00:06:00] without any words.
Johl: Yeah.
Lisa: So good. So many photographers really feel like they’re doing all the right things, yet nothing is changing in their businesses. So what do you think is usually happening beneath the surface in those cases?
Johl: Yeah, it’s a good question. I think a lot of time they’re staying comfortable. Like they’re doing a lot of things that are comfortable. They’re gonna change their website, they’re gonna look at social media. They might check out chat, GTP, and they might do all these things that are easy, but they’re not doing the [00:06:30] hard things like going to another business and doing a, seeing if they wanna work together.
Putting promotions out there, calling clients doing the things that are gonna be, they’re gonna have a bit of fear around, they’re the things that actually move the needle in a business. So. We can trick ourselves into being busy, but we’re doing busy work, which isn’t doing anything. So we wanna look at what’s the steps and what are the things that are gonna move the needle forward in the business and get results and lean into those.
Lisa: I think also, you know, [00:07:00] I started my business in the very wild west of Facebook and it used to be like post one time on Facebook or Instagram or send one email and I would be booked. And the landscape has just changed so much because we’re inundated with so much noise and so much sales all the time that we weren’t, you know, our attention span is literally like one to two seconds.
So I just really have to come up with different marketing strategies. So I wanna talk a little bit about that too, because I know that you had mentioned [00:07:30] about a sales marketing engine. And I wanted to talk about how that relates to photography and what that actually looks like in a photography business.
Johl: Yeah. Well, let’s take a portrait business, for example. When I’m working with a client, the first thing we’re working on is them, their energy, their beliefs, their strategies, and their habits. Then we go to a sales system. So what I mean by a sales system is, all right, what’s the end result? We want? Let’s say you’re a portrait photographer and it’s you want a $3,000 average sale. What’s that look like in regards to the price [00:08:00] list and the products and the offerings, and then the consultation call and how we’re talking about price and the how we’re introducing products and how we’re doing all the, the wholesale process, which is really the client experience. Then once that’s set, then we go to a marketing strategy.
Yeah, you’re right. Like Facebook when I started as well, like I remember one of the first promotions when I came up with this concept and working with other businesses. We got 1200 leads in four days.
Lisa: yeah,
Johl: No money spent. That will never happen now. Right? It’s impossible.[00:08:30]
Lisa: Hopeful. Believe me, it’s gone.
Johl: The same. I still teach this system to my clients and we had one in in the US recently. He got 160 leads in four days. Now that’s a good result now, right?
Lisa: Yeah.
Johl: Which is still amazing, but we have to be more, and what I mean by an engine is we have to have multiple different streams and avenues coming in. We can’t rely on one, we have to have a nurturing sequence.
And also we have to be able to selling’s done over weeks [00:09:00] and months now, not just a one off. So people need to engage with you seven to 11 times before they’ll buy. They need to know trust and like you. So we have to. Not have to, but it really helps to put your, your personality and who you are out there.
’cause they’re buying from you. A lot of people are scared to be themselves or scared to get in front of camera, , particularly women. Because we have, we all do, we have a lot of hangups of how we look. Are we too fat? Are we too old? Are we too this, are we too that, or we, you know, and so [00:09:30] we don’t do it.
But when you can authentically show up as yourself. And speak your truth. You are aligning with your clients and they’re gonna come to you. They’re gonna feel it. They’re gonna go, oh, I really resonate with Lisa in that, you know, I really want to do that now. And that’s, it’s not just a one-off, it’s a process that we wanna set up.
So it’s consistently Through the year.
Lisa: Yeah, I love that. And I think, you know, I have been recording videos and showing up online since 2012 and [00:10:00] watching yourself age on camera and gain weight and lose weight, and gain weight and lose weight. It is wild. It’s a wild ride. And if anything, to anyone who wants to maybe start putting themselves out there, like just do it.
Just do it. No one has ever actually said anything negative or nasty to me. Really. And if they have, my team blocks it.
Johl: But the thing
Lisa: I don’t even know. Right?
Johl: like that says more about them than you if they do that anyway, but. [00:10:30] Most everyone’s so wrapped up in themselves, they’re not even thinking about you. Yeah. Like I, if I look at my first videos, they’re horrible. Like I was terrible, but,
Lisa: Oh yeah.
Johl: but I remember it was about 2017 when I started coaching and I, I remember consciously not putting videos up about meditating, about spirituality, about mindset because I was worried about what people think.
So I talked about marketing and sales and business stuff, but then I got to a point where I’m like. not what I want to be talking about. So I just [00:11:00] started talking about these things and that is when my business took off. ’cause it really aligned. Either people thought it was bullshit, woo woo or not, not for me And other people really aligned with it.
Sort of like what you’re doing and you know, how you’ve got the word sold in your, you know, in your business. Like it’s, that’s gonna resonate with people and other people are gonna go, Hmm, not for me. That’s exactly what you want.
Lisa: Right. Like if you wanna learn about IPS sales and stuff, I will have guests that will tell you about that. But I love a conversation about woowoo, like,
Johl: Yeah, yeah.
Lisa: right, [00:11:30] that’s my heart.
Johl: But I think now woo woo is way more accepted. Like any, I’ve listened to a lot of podcasts with like DI of A CEO and different ones where high, high net worth successful business people, nearly to a T, they all talk about meditation and mindfulness Now.
Lisa: Yeah.
Johl: Like, it’s, it’s not woo woo. It’s actually, there’s so much science behind it and how much it can help you.
It’s, it’s not fringe anymore.
Lisa: No, [00:12:00] no. What what’s really interesting is my, I have a son who’s about 16 and he’s quite a popular guy with the ladies, but he has a lot of friends. That are like girls and they, I’ll come over and they call me Mama Lisa. And we just have chats like we have so many chats. And one chat, this girl was just talking about how she just is feeling stuck and how she’s just like, this is who she is.
And I was like, honey, like you can change who you are at any point. You can decide today that this is [00:12:30] my personnel, this is what I do. And then you start taking the action steps to become that person. That’s all it is. You make the decision and then you commit to this decision and you keep showing up as that person, and then someday you are that person.
Johl: Yeah, and I think people get stuck on an identity around like, I’m just the shy one, or I’m this, I’m that. But it’s actually, no,
Lisa: Yeah.
Johl: you can shift it.
Lisa: just because someone told you that once doesn’t mean it’s true and doesn’t mean you have to believe it, right?
Johl: Yeah, and this is where money blocks come from as well. Like people [00:13:00] are told certain things and this, a lot of photographers have money blocks and most of them come from childhood, like what they were told or how they grew up. And that’s just a belief. It’s so ingrained in them, it’s hard to shift until they become aware.
It’s just a belief.
Lisa: Yep. Absolutely. I was actually just having a podcast interview with a photographer from Romania who now lives in. Brisbane and she was telling me that how she had, like back in Romania, women would basically just go to the factories [00:13:30] and that’s where they would work. They didn’t really have any options.
So when she came to Brisbane, when she was asking people for money back in Romania, it was like thought of as begging. And so she, I was like, oh girl, there’s a money block that you had to get over there. And now she’s charging like thousands of dollars for her beautiful newborn photography work, but holy like.
Those are some huge money blocks that she had to come over.
Johl: Yeah. Well, good honor. That’s
Lisa: Yeah, right. I was like,
Johl: but they’re so [00:14:00] ingrained, like a lot of stuff we. What we hear as kids, but I think it’s between the age of one and eight, officially a one and seven, but are so ingrained in us that we drag it with us when we’re adults and don’t even realize that it’s affecting how we’re showing up and what actions we take or don’t take.
And yeah, money’s a big one.
Lisa: Or even like our teenage years between like 14 to even like 20, because in our minds and in our bodies, it is the most intense period of pain, of trauma, of [00:14:30] heartache that will we ever have because in our twenties and thirties, like we kind of are like, it’s okay, but we keep that trauma that happened then with us.
And so do you have any advice on maybe those that, that have that trauma maybe in those early years or mid-age years that of just releasing it and how, how to let it go, how to let it stop stopping you from living the life or being the person you wanna be?
Johl: Yeah, I think firstly when we. Dealing with, and trauma can mean so many different
Lisa: Oh, so many different things. Anything.
Johl: [00:15:00] yeah, trauma for one person is nothing to it, like it’s you personally, right? So we first identify, you know, what it is that’s the block or where it came from, like you said, the trauma, what it might have been , and why we’re holding onto it or why we came up with that particular belief around it.
And, you know, three people can have exactly the same experience and have totally different beliefs around it. Right. Like you might have three siblings that went through exactly the same thing and they all have a different belief around it. Right? So [00:15:30] why did you take that particular belief and then how is that serving you?
And generally it’s, no, okay, how do we shift it? And that’s where we sort of dive in it and shifting. It’s not like, oh, it’s gone. It’s taking layers of things. So through work, you know, we change, you know, limiting belief work. I am statements, there’s different ways, different modalities, but we’re just shifting it slowly.
So it doesn’t have the hold that it had. And then as we start to move away from it, we be become aware of, it was just [00:16:00] something we’re dragging with us that we can change. And then confidence comes from that as well.
Lisa: Hmm. Yeah, I love that. So let’s talk about habits and routines ’cause they have a bigger impact on success than many people might think. So what advice do you have about getting into those successful habits and daily routines that they might wanna
Johl: Yeah. I. I am obsessed with habits and
Lisa: Yeah, I love it. And have it stacking
Johl: yeah, because [00:16:30] everything we do is habit. Like if you think about like 90%, I would say, I’m guessing 90% of the population, the first thing they do when they wake up is the habit of grabbing their phone, right. If you change one habit, change that, because what’s happening, and I dunno who said, it’s a funny quote, like people grab their phones before they grab their partners in the morning.
Right. Which is a sad reality
Lisa: Oh, it’s true though.
Johl: we’re so, we’re so addicted to it and we don’t wanna miss out. And it’s like when you are waking up, your body’s [00:17:00] still waking up and we go straight to a dopamine hitting on emails. Instagram, it’s like, so it’s draining energy ’cause it’s this rush of adrenaline straight away.
I always say to my clients, don’t touch your phone for the first hour. Don’t have a coffee for the first hour. Those two things are gonna make your day way better if you just stop them. So one of the habits I I was gonna say make my clients do, but I suggest they do, is start the day with my, like I’ve got a journal that I give, give my clients.
It’s a [00:17:30] really simple journaling, gratitude, what you wanna get done for the day. It’s really simple things to wake yourself up the right way and start your day powerfully with a meditation.
Lisa: Hmm.
Johl: it’s not what we do every now and then that counts in our life. It’s what we do consistently, right? So if we consistently do and shift a couple of things, like if habit, like the way we eats a habit, the exercise we do is habit.
The way we dress as a habit, you know, like most people wear the same five or six outfits, cook the same five or six meals, [00:18:00] they drive to work the same way, or they walk to work the same way. That, that we do everything because our minds can’t. We wanna have as much habit as possible so we don’t have to think about everything.
So like, brushing your teeth is a habit you don’t even think about, unfortunately, driving something we don’t really think about either. You just, you know, sometimes 20 minutes.
Lisa: did I get here?
Johl: Yeah, we wanna, like, I’ve got the point where the morning ritual for me is just so ingrained. It’s just I don’t have to think about it
Lisa: Yeah.
Johl: and then I [00:18:30] test and try different habits on.
So I’ll do it like a, I’ve got a conscious commitment. Sheet that I give my clients. So if anyone wants one, just DM me on instant, I’ll send it to you and it’s like, what’s one thing I wanna change for 30 days? And you track it and it’s on this sheet. And like I started, you know, I’ve done heaps of ’em, but one of them I’m still doing is cold plunge, which I, I just wanted to do it ’cause I heard the science about it and it sounded really hard too, like, and I like trying hard things and it was really hard and still is.
That was two and a half years ago. But I kept it ’cause of , the [00:19:00] feeling and I got after it was amazing. But every morning I get in, it’s still as hard as the day one ’cause it sucks, but it’s,
Lisa: Thank you for saying that. Because I have tried it and I hate it. I hate it.
Johl: it’s a bit harder for women because it’s not as effect, it can’t be as cold for women. And this is a, a,
Lisa: Yeah, I’ve heard that
Johl: yeah. So you’ve gotta be careful and when you do it, like what cycle you’re on. So women, you gotta look into the science a bit more. Like men, you can have it cold. And [00:19:30] we’re sort of, you women get the short end of the stick on a lot of
Lisa: Yeah, I do.
Johl: So unfortunately, like with, so it’s a bit easier for men, but with women, if you’re gonna do it, yeah. Get the look at the science first and you can’t have it as cold and you’ve gotta be careful when you do it, those sorts of things. Yeah.
Lisa: yeah,
Johl: But it’s hard.
Lisa: It’s hard. It is hard. I’m gonna circle back ’cause we were talking about habits and how we are kind of just on autopilot. I was listening to, or maybe reading with Joe Dispenza book about how often our [00:20:00] thoughts are just a continuous loop of the same thoughts every single day.
Johl: It’s something like 90%. Yeah.
Lisa: was wild. That’s wild. It’s true. It’s true.
Johl: So we can’t shift unless we shift our habits or thoughts or both, right? When we do a new habit, we are shifting our thoughts because we’re doing something different instead of autopilot. So yeah, I think it’s actually 5%. There’s like original thoughts and 95% are, you know what we always think.
So that’s why [00:20:30] no one changes and when I do coaching, we want paradigm shifts. We want big shifts. So that’s why we’re looking at habits and mindset and beliefs, because that’s when you have these big jumps.
Lisa: Hmm.
Johl: because we’re thinking differently. We’re showing up differently. When we think differently, we take different actions, then we get different results.
Lisa: yeah, a hundred percent.
Johl: Love Dr. Joe Dispenser’s. Workers.
Lisa: I know I’ve been wanting to go to one of his retreats in like Cancun or something.
Johl: I went to one.
Lisa: haven’t committed yet. Have you been to one?
Johl: [00:21:00] Yeah, I went to one last year. Was it? It was, I think we talked maybe two or three years ago. So it was between
Lisa: yeah, yeah, yeah.
Johl: Yeah. So maybe it was last year or the year before. It was amazing. Yeah.
Lisa: Oh, I bet.
Johl: It was full on. ’cause you’re doing multiple, like two hour meditations a day. One of ’em was four and a half hours.
Like it’s intense, but it’s, yeah. Quite amazing.
Lisa: yeah. His voice though, in the meditation scare me. Like, I can’t get into a man. Like, I just, I jump, I don’t like that deep male voice that’s like, oh, like it, I, it, fight or flight. [00:21:30] Don’t like it.
Johl: he does talk about that and how he shifts his tone and stuff. It’s all on purpose.
Lisa: I know.
Johl: I think you’d really enjoy the, the five day. I think it’s five days we did it, but yeah, it’s quite
Lisa: Yeah. I think probably like it more in person. Yeah. That’s so funny. Alright, so let’s talk about maybe subconscious beliefs that keep photographers playing small.
Johl: Wow. Where do I start? A lot of the beliefs that we have are [00:22:00] unconscious though as well. Like it, I’m not good enough. Just a very prime example of a lot of photographer, a lot of people I work with. I’m not good enough. I’m not good enough photographer. I’m not good enough at business. What? Put whatever after it.
That’s a really powerful one. You know, there’s a lot of beliefs around money. I, I, you know, my clients won’t pay that. I can’t charge that. Those sorts of beliefs are really popular. I guess, with business owners as well. , They’re probably the big ones, but there’s subtle ones around that as well.
But [00:22:30] like I said, it’s finding out, okay, where did that belief come from and why, and how do we move it? Yeah. Is the key. But I would say the universe one is I’m, I’m not good enough,
Lisa: I still struggle with that. And if I think even like, because we’ve got such a big audience and we’ve got like so many students, I really struggle putting my photography work out there because. I feel like I have to be way up here and I can’t make a mistake and I stop myself from sharing things because I’m [00:23:00] scared.
Johl: Yeah. I mean, that’s a big bar to set for yourself, right? It’s, well, it’s really impossible to live up to and.
Lisa: yeah,
Johl: They, you know, one of the things is photographers we do is like we compare, ah, they’re so good, but comparison’s the thief of joy. So when you’re comparing all the time, you’re never gonna level up.
’cause you always see yourself as a lot worse than you actually are as well. it’s not like your photography skills when you’re in business is one of the least important things. That’s sort of like I would say, [00:23:30] your mindset, sales and marketing process, then your photography in that order.
Is the
Lisa: yeah. It’s so true. And it’s like I, it’s that spotlight syndrome thinking that every image that I’m gonna post, everyone’s gonna see, and they’re gonna be looking at it with like a micro. Looking for those mistakes. Right? And no one really is, I’m just comparing like my straight out of camera to other people’s, like finished images and it’s so silly and I know I’m doing it, and yet I always just get in my head like, Hmm, I don’t think I’m [00:24:00] gonna
Johl: Well, I remember when I started doing, it was before I was coaching, but I was doing some talks and stuff for photographers and I had a what they called a bus tour and they’d get 60 photographers on a bus and we’d go, go around two different people’s studios to see their studio set up. So one, mine was one of them.
And. I got to the point where I didn’t care what people thought about. I only cared what my, my clients thought, not other photographers. And I, I got to, I had been to that point and I had, I dunno if you remember spot coloring back in, [00:24:30] you know, this is like the early two thousands where
Lisa: Oh yeah. Yes. Left of color.
Johl: Yeah.
Collective color and that,
Lisa: I did that.
Johl: was a, it was a thing then it was cringe afterwards, right? So I had
Lisa: It’ll come back, watch. It’ll come back.
Johl: I was doing weddings at the time as well, and I had this huge 30 by 40 inch portrait of a wedding bridal party with spot coloring of grass at, and anyway, my clients loved it, right? And, but all the photographers were like, you know, I was like, oh, what are they gonna think?
I was like, I [00:25:00] don’t really care. And they’re commenting on it, and I. My speech in front of them. I said like most of you would’ve commented on that spot color. And everyone started laughing. I said, I don’t care ’cause you’re not my clients. But I’ve sold 20 or 30 weddings based on that photo alone. Like people come in and love it, right?
Because the general public are usually way behind photographers level of what they see and stuff. And I say this to my clients, like, your clients are seeing the emotion, the connection. What they feel [00:25:30] in the photo. They’re not seeing the light, the technical aspects, the composition. They’re not really seeing those things.
So yeah, if it’s stopping you being you and posting, you gotta, that’s one of those things you go, okay, I’m gonna let that go. ’cause
Lisa: Yeah, you gotta just do it. What’s interesting too is like because I have so many incredible teachers that come for our retreats and everything, our online retreats I’m exposed to so many incredible artists, but also trends. And it’s easy to get that, [00:26:00] like, stuck in my brain thinking that, oh, what I’m doing right now is irrelevant and it’s not good enough and it’s passed.
And I should be hopping on this trend where everyone’s wearing a boho hat and in a field with a dress, you know, with a 35 millimeter camera, but that’s not me. I wanna shoot with a 200. I wanna be way back yelling at you, directing you what to do. And so it was funny ’cause I just stopped posting some of that because I’m like, oh, my style’s not cool anymore.
Johl: Yeah.
Lisa: you know what? I never stopped booking [00:26:30] anybody
Johl: but it’s when you are enjoying what you’re doing and you are being. You know, true to you. That’s when you really have fun with it and people gel with it and you’ll be more booked than trying to follow a trend that you don’t really jam with.
Lisa: No, and that’s the thing with trends. If you keep changing, I think with the trend, then you never really have a solid foundation.
Johl: Correct. Yeah. And I just think, just do you like that’s full stop.
Lisa: yeah. It took me about. 15 years to learn [00:27:00] that one.
Johl: like, I’m constantly learning stuff about, and I’ve still got blocks, I’ve still got all these things, but I’m always curious, like, I think one of the best things you can be as a just a person, but as a business owner, be co constantly curious, ask questions about yourself, about others, and where you want to get,
Lisa: yeah.
Johl: you
Lisa: I love that. Humility. Humility is a huge thing in this industry too. ’cause you see a lot of stars rise and you see a lot of stars fall.
Just be yourself. Just be [00:27:30] human and kind.
Johl: Yeah. I talk to my client, like particularly my clients in my groups about failures I’ve had or things I’m not doing well,
Lisa: Hmm.
Johl: or, battles I’ve had. And I, you know, I’ve talked online with certain things like, you know, I’ve had mental health struggles through my business career as well. I think the reason I talk about those things is ’cause at one point, particularly when I started coaching, like I shouldn’t have these struggles ’cause I’m a business coach, I’m a mindset coach.
I shouldn’t have these. But [00:28:00] when I broke it down, I was like, well, I can’t help people if I’m holding back and pretending to be perfect, when actually I’m human as well , and things do affect me. And then when I started talking about them people related to it a bit more, I think. Yeah, I think that’s important.
Lisa: It’s funny, I just posted a Instagram reel with a hack that I just discovered a couple days ago. I’ve been a studio lighting photographer for 15 years, and I just learned about like. You take the diffuser and the umbrella and then you [00:28:30] just open it altogether. You don’t have to fart around with the diffuser anymore.
And so I almost, I almost hesitated posting that because I was like, I should know this already. Like duh. But you know what I did? I posted it. ’cause I was like, this is gonna help someone else who doesn’t know this. And if you think I’m an idiot, cool. Doesn’t matter. You probably don’t need my course then.
Johl: But some of the, some of the simple tips are things that are the best.
Lisa: Right.
Johl: Right? The hacks. Yeah. I love that.
Lisa: yeah. Let’s share, just keep [00:29:00] sharing, get out there and share. Okay. Let’s talk a little bit about frequency and operating on frequency, because I think often people get confused about really what frequency is and can you chat about that and maybe types of clients and opportunities and all the, all that jazz.
Johl: Frequency. Like, like you said, we’re all, we’re all energy, we’re all packets of energy. And that’s science. Like, it’s like we’re emitting a frequency and like attracts like, so that’s where you [00:29:30] can walk in and have a conversation with someone and all of a sudden you go, I really like that person generally.
’cause you’re on the same frequency. Like, it’s not how they look. It’s like , it’s a feeling, it’s an energy. with my coaching, what I try to do and like through habit and mindset, we’re trying to prime ourselves to be in the right frequency and flow state to attract what we want.
And like, I dunno if you’ve heard of the emotional frequency chart, which is sort of rates like Jock, Joe Spencer [00:30:00] talks about it. But when we’re operating in love, joy, and peace, instead of shame, anger, guilt, fear. Stress, we’re in different frequency, right? So it’s a, we’re all, we’re gonna ebb and flow outta those things, but how do we shift out of the lower ones that we don’t want to be stuck in?
How do we shift through them, not put them to the side, feel them move through them to get into the higher ones? ’cause that’s when we’re in the, the frequency of the energy we want to be just, that’s when stuff just starts to happen. Right? Like
Lisa: Opportunities show [00:30:30] up
and ear inbox is flooded. Yeah.
Johl: Yeah. It just happens like, oh.
Everyone’s been through it, like weeks where stuff’s just happening, like really good sales, the car park is where you want it, everything. And then other times where you feel like you’re getting blocked at every turn,
Lisa: Yep.
There’s blessings in the block though too. ’cause sometimes it’s like you need to have a break.
Johl: I look at everything like a blessing, almost.
Like even the bad things, like The silver lining in everything. And [00:31:00] what’s the lesson here? So usually when something bad happens or not what you want. Okay. There’s a lesson here and I, what’s the lesson? To learn? Yeah.
Lisa: yeah. Even with like when we have like tough clients, like when you have that client that just don’t jive with or like, they just take so much energy and. Just taking responsibility and being like, you know what? It’s okay for me to say like, you’re not for me. I’m not the photographer for you, and that’s okay.
Here’s like three people that I think you might jive with and move on. And that’s not [00:31:30] a failure. That’s just
Johl: Yeah,
Lisa: where you wanna sit, like.
Johl: yeah, we’re dealing with the general public. , You’re gonna get clients that aren’t gonna be right for you. You’re gonna get clients that are a nightmare, like I call ’em. We used to call ’em the one percenters, so.
Lisa: yeah.
Johl: 1% of our clients every year were a total nightmare. If it was any more than that, something’s going wrong.
But you always, like, at one point we were doing 300 portrait shoots a year, and, and we knew there’d be three clients a year that were gonna really be a nightmare. And once we’d go up, there’s our one percenter. [00:32:00] Great. It’s out. Let’s deal with it, move it other way, and move our, yeah. Hm.
what a lot of photographers tend to do, and I’ve had photographers that have really struggled ’cause they’ve had one terrible client that’s ruined their confidence and really made them second guess everything.
And you look at it and go, all right, you had this one client. What about the last 50 clients that raved
Lisa: Yeah. They love you.
Yeah.
Johl: that’s an
Lisa: Yep, totally. I’ve actually decided to stop selling gift certificates because when people are given, they don’t, they’re not connecting with me. They don’t know who I [00:32:30] am. They don’t love my work. They haven’t saved up their money for a session with me, and it just has such a different energy when I have someone who doesn’t really know me.
And so I had sold, I’ve sold a few that are still out there, but like carrying on. No more, no more, unless you’re already a client. That’s it. Right?
Johl: Yeah. And that’s, a powerful thing when you can make decisions for your business that you go, no, this is the direction I’m going in. This is why, and you make that decision. That’s a really, that’s a, I would say that’s a really abundant decision. That’s not [00:33:00] from a lack. Like, oh, what if I miss out on clients?
But like you said, you want the right clients
Lisa: Yeah. I would rather put my energy into end creating art for someone who’s gonna love it and appreciate it, versus someone who’s like, oh, my hair looks bad.
Johl: Yeah. Oh yeah, exactly. And I, I had to, I learned this the hard way with coaching where, when I started, if someone wanted coach me, yeah, let’s, let’s do it. Right? But it wasn’t like I learnt the hard way. Some people just aren’t right for me and aren’t coachable and a lot of [00:33:30] diff so I have a bit of a, a better process now, making sure.
That I feel like it’s in alignment with the right client. And if it’s not, I tell them
Lisa: Yeah.
Johl: because I know it’s better that way.
Lisa: What would you say are the characteristics of a coachable client would be?
Johl: That’s a really good question. I think, and this is gonna be generalizing, women are really good. ‘Cause I think they’re more open, right? I think one thing is you’ve gotta be really open to seeing yourself in and leave the ego at the door. And [00:34:00] also be curious and coachable. What I mean by coachable is don’t think you know everything, and you might think you know something, but try it on for size.
I always say to people, you don’t have to do this forever. Try it on. Try this out. Let’s do this, and if you don’t like it, then great. Or if you wanna do it this way. And it’s like, if you don’t wanna do something, tell me. Let’s talk about it. Why, what’s going on here? And have that honest conversation. So being very open, curious.
And [00:34:30] try things on, I would say are
the main things to be coachable. And lastly, take action. If you’re don’t, if you’re, if you’re not going do it, you do the work, you’re not gonna get the
Lisa: yeah. yeah. It’s like, like complaining. Just complaining and not doing anything. It’s just like, well, that’s your choice. You’re making a choice by not doing anything. So.
Johl: Yeah. But some people now realize, and there’s ways I can sort of identify that they’re not gonna take action. I know they’re not. So there’s no point in, I don’t want them wasting their money and my time if [00:35:00] they’re not gonna actually implement what we’re talking about.
Lisa: You know, I know what’s funny is I have been uncoachable and I know I have but also because the coach that I hired. Was telling me things that like my intuition and my gut, I was like, no, this is not right for my audience. This does not feel aligned. This doesn’t feel good to me. Like even we hired a YouTube coach years ago and what they were saying to do and the thing like, it was just like, you gotta get the views.
Like, I’m like, but that’s not how I wanna do it. [00:35:30] Like it doesn’t like, even though that’s gonna work for virality. Oh, it feels icky, right? So I’d rather do aligned
Johl: I’ve, I’ve had probably five or six coaches over my career as photographer and a coach, and one of them was like that. It was just something, it just didn’t feel right. Right. So we, we did it for a while and cut ties. I’m, I would say I’m very coachable. Like you said, it just doesn’t feel right.
It’s not right. And [00:36:00] that’s, you know, like I say to people, I’m not the right coach for everyone. I’m the right coach for certain people. There’s so many coaches out there that’ll be better fitted for some other people too. Right.
That’s okay.
Lisa: I love it like, like photography, like coaching, like we’re not for everybody and that’s okay. That’s okay. Somebody else is, and that makes a place for someone who’s amazing for you. so Let’s go into our lightning round. So, mountains, oceans, or forest.
Johl: Oh, I would say [00:36:30] forests and mountains. I love nature.
Lisa: Oh and that’s so funny. I’m like, gimme the ocean. ’cause I’m in Canada. I’m surrounded by mountains and forest,
Johl: Yeah. You want what? You don’t have. I love the yeah, I just love the treat. I just being in nature. Like I take my dog who’s sleeping down here, I take her for a walk and we’ve got a really nice reserve and I just feel relaxed when I’m in
Lisa: Nice, nice. So coffee matcha or herbal tea.
Johl: I like a [00:37:00] Chinese herbal tea I have every day. That’s my jam. Yeah,
Lisa: nice, nice.
If you could live anywhere for a year, where would you go?
Johl: I would probably travel around Australia in a caravan with the family. Something we wanted to do and we, we really thought about and got close to, and then COVID hit. And so we had, obviously Australia was very locked down for multiple years. And then by the time we came out of COVID, we’re sort of building everything back up and then the kids ages.
We’re a little, you know, high school and different things, so [00:37:30] it hasn’t worked out, but that would be amazing. I’d love that. Such a big country and I haven’t seen a lot of it.
Lisa: Oh yeah, my husband and I, we bought a motor home a few years ago and we took it all the way down the Oregon coast and
back up through Washington and back to British Columbia, and it was incredible. We had such a good trip, so I would highly recommend that
Johl: Yeah. That sounds cool.
Lisa: Very good. What is a simple daily ritual that you truly enjoy?
Johl: Well, cold plunges. I hate, I love hate, love [00:38:00] hate relation. I think, I think meditation probably would be the one
Yeah,
That I really love to do.
Lisa: Do you prefer structure or spontaneity?
Johl: that’s a really good one. I, I love, I crave structure. I really like structure, but. Throw a bit of spontaneity in there as well all the
Lisa: I’m the same. I’m like, I, I, yeah, I’m the same. What is a song that always shifts your mood?
Johl: Oh, that’s a good one. Upbeat? I think anything [00:38:30] from childhood like as well, like, well, teenage years I think like, I love Metallica songs. Free style is a really cool song when I was growing up. But probably like, I’m happy. I think it’s Bruno Mars that’s, that. It’s real catchy. It was on one of my, the kids used to watch a movie.
It was on, and anytime it came on you’d sort of feel really good. Yeah,
Lisa: totally. I love Metallica, enter Sandman. My, like, I crank that almost like at least three times a week on the way to work. Like it’s my favorite.
Johl: that’s [00:39:00] a, that’s a really good, really good
Lisa: It’s like really good. I really missed going to Metallica last year. They were in Portland and we were like there a day later and I was like, you guys, can we please go and No, I got vetoed.
Johl: Ha. They just played in in Melbourne. I missed it. Yeah, I couldn’t go.
Lisa: Yeah, actually, guns N Roses just said they’re coming to Vancouver and me and my sisters are gonna go.
Johl: yeah, I watched them last year. Was it last year in in Melbourne? They were really good. Yeah.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been a [00:39:30] fan for like, since I was 14. Okay. So if your current chapter of life had a title, what would it be?
Johl: That’s a really tricky one. Maybe something around inspiration. Well be inspired. There you go. Be inspired. I’m moving towards more, what inspires me more? Like when you’re inspired, I think you, you’re happier, you are got more energy. So I would say something around that. Yeah,
Lisa: Yeah. Love [00:40:00] that. What does freedom mean to you right now?
Johl: I think freedom is having time to do what you want.
And part of, for me, creating a business or helping other people create businesses to find freedom through money and time. So money for me, I don’t really care about, I don’t want to Lamborghini, I don’t want things, but money affords you time, which then gives you the freedom to do what you want.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah.
I love [00:40:30] that. Oh, you are offering one listener a free one-on-one session, which is very generous. Where can our listeners connect with you to claimant it?
Johl: Probably Instas the best. Just DM me. Hey, saw you on Lisa’s podcast. And. That’s Johl Dunn, J-O-H-L-D-U-N-N on Ista. And yeah, just follow along. Anyway, I’d love people to follow along or reach out and let me know what you got out of the chat, these takeaway or anything that resonated. But I love hearing from people, so even if you [00:41:00] just wanna let me know that it Yeah.
You enjoyed
Lisa: I love it.
I love it. So is that the best place that they can reach you is Instagram?
Johl: generally, yeah. We’ve got a website as well, johldunn.com. But Instagram’s, you know, and you know, that’s where. We put tips up, we put tricks up musings, thoughts around business, around mindset and those sort of things as well and what we’re up to. Yeah. ’cause we do, you know, I do free webinars and stuff from time to time.
You can check it all out there.
Lisa: I love that. That’s awesome. So I’d love to end my interviews with this last [00:41:30] question and it is, what are you currently curious about or artistically curious about?
Johl: Hmm. That’s a really good one. I’m currently cur, like, curious about and diving into more how to, for myself and also my clients, how to turn the money that you make from the business into investment strategies and different things.
Quite curious about that. Also, psychology. I’m constantly reading [00:42:00] about that, like how our brain works and why, like I’m really fascinated with that.
Artistically, I probably should be a bit more curious. I haven’t really picked up a camera for a while.
Lisa: That’s okay. There’s a time, there’s a season for that.
Johl: yeah, and I think I will again I think this, you know, Christmas break, I might pick the camera up and just start shooting again. I’m not sure what, but see what, see what comes about.
Lisa: I love it. Well, Joel, thank you so much for joining me today.
Johl: Thank you for having me. Yeah, it’s been a really cool conversation and I enjoy talking about people that, vibe with [00:42:30] spirituality and manifestation and
Lisa: I love it anytime. All my beautiful friends. I hope you have loved this conversation just as much as I have. I am sending you so much of my light and my love today and every single day. We’ll see you next time.
